abs bikes versus non-abs bikes

So i'm still on my Ls, about to do my Ps and looking to upgrade in the next 1 1/2-2 years and really like the look of the r6 and performance of the r6, however, the cbr 600 could also be a possibility as it can have abs on 2009+ models.

I would prefer the r6, however, the cbr 600 with abs seems like a really safe option as I currently ride 7 days a week lots of the time in the wet on my gs500f and don't own my own car.

thanks in advance.
Gav.

 

Id get your ps first bud.

 

Pipe down hero. I've been thinking about, asking questions about, and researching upgrade bikes since I was on my Ls and I have gathered a fair bit of important information from talking to various people.

I'm on my Ps and would also like to know the benefits etc - actually been looking into the same thing myself. From what I've read it takes a HIGHLY experienced rider to out break the ABS on track. I'm also leaning towards the CBR600RR as the R6 seems like its happiest in the higher rev ranges (i.e. on track).

Also (borrowing from old keith code here) I figure if I can just stomp both brakes on I can devote A LOT more attention to getting out of the situation and not thinking about set up, squeeze, how wet is it, locking the front etc etc.

 

Well a good rider can out brake abs. Same like how a good driver can out brake a car with abs. But in essence, abs is a good thing to have. People panic and just mash on the brakes. Abs just makes it easier to maneuver around obstacles whilst braking. IMO I would rather have it and not need it than need it only to find it's not there.

 

Yeah.. Well if I was upgrading tomorrow the CBR with ABS would be my choice. I ride pretty much everywhere and I'd much rather be able to just mash the brakes and have 95% of my attention go straight to eyes up and getting out rather than keeping half my brain on whether or not its locking up and feathering the rear brake if its wet and blah blah. Also, I am more than prepared to admit I havn't spent enough time ploughing into cars or on the track to be able to out brake an ABS system.

 

That's why people like Heidi and Dids tell all the learners to practice their emergency stops, so that if/when you need to do one your muscle memory kicks in and you don't have to focus much on braking and can focus more on the obstacle.

ABS is a great safety feature, but personally I wouldn't not buy a bike because it didn't have ABS. Sounds like it's a matter of personal opinion though, so be prepared to have everyone tell you your opinion is wrong

 

I can't figure out how you can ride at all without your abs....

 

Still - I don't reckon there would be many people who can brake better than an ABS under every random road condition, after just receiving the biggest shock of their life as a car has pulled out in front of them. Every time a rider has our braked an ABS has probably been on a track in perfect conditions and from a marker or something. I don't care if it's 50% or 2% - I still want that extra brain power on the exit plan.

Edit: Not trying to flame or start an "no - I"M RIGHT" war just like my degree, there is NEVER a 100% correct answer - but understanding every perspective leads to more informed decisions when personal preference eventually makes the call.

 

For me, If I could get a bike I like with ABS that is what I would be doing. If you don't like the CBR that much then look at others, you really need to like the bike as well as the safety. I did months of web searching and heaps of test rides to find my bike. Just because the R6 has the performance of a race bred machine, the CBR and others may suit your style once you have compared them properly not just from reading about them, good luck with choosing as it is one of the hardest decision.

 

Gav - You're looking to upgrade in 1.5 - 2 years so researching now, whilst still a good idea so you have an idea of what's out there and what appeals, is still not going to help much as models and options will have changed substantially by the time you're ready. It could well be that ABS is std on all new bikes in 2 years time.

As for is ABS good, bad or indifferent - I say the more safety features you can get your hands on the better, if it's available on the bike you like go for it. But don't think of it as an excuse to be slack about practicing your riding skills, ABS will help but you can still fuck it up through poor decision making in the heat of the moment whether you have the technology or not.

 

I wouldn't say that - if you haven't read the studies and the conditions of all the actual tests, don't comment. Probably every rider.. track yeah yeah yeah no.. I'd hate to think i'm leaving my (possibly) very last moments alive and my most important decisions down to technology. I know i can brake hard, and i mean HARD! in the wet, both on the track and on the road, and even harder in the perfect sunshine sunshine of summer. Forgive me for old-school thinking, but that's one more thing to go wrong when you need it the most..

+1 - you'll end up learning how to brake WITHOUT the aides of ABS on your LAMS bike anyway, nail that and you'll be fine. ABS isn't going to make you an instantly awesome braker. It's like being given a Ferrari FXX Race car doesn't make you Michael Schumacher. You've still gotta give it the right input.

You've got a lot more to worry about before you look at upgrade bikes anyway.

ahh, i knew there wqas a recent discussion somewhere!

 

How is panicking and "mashing" the brakes and letting a computer sort out your shit going to help you be a safe rider?

 

It's not panicking, probably shouldn't have said "mashing".. Having ABS could allow you to reprogram your emergency response essentially..

We program ourselves to set up - squeeze - and (subconsciously if you're good) monitor for locking. If you ride heaps on the track or practice your emergency stops regularly in all sorts of conditions so it kicks in perfectly when shit goes down - sweet, you probably don't need it. However, I know I'm not going to be riding on the track enough or practice it every couple of days or whatever to be able to nail it in any condition, without thinking about it.

I know when I brake (like the other day ) as soon I I started squeezing a damn good part of my brain was thinking "alright its pissing down and the roads pretty good regularly used so probably no oil no white lines brakes always require more during the rain oh fuck how much more havnt done this in the wet for a while crap crap rear brake in the wet squeeze more still good" aaand so on.

The brain cannot devote 100% of its power to two things at once. The more skilled you are, the less brainpower you will need towards braking/fixing any locking. Personally, I will bet my cards that in my specific situation, being able to program myself to just squeeze like hell in any situation and forget about it locking will take less concentration and leave more to look for options.

 

You ride and abs bike the same way you would ride a non abs, no big deal..
There is no sense of safety as you ride, but if you make a big mistake, and realise
that you will crash your abs will say dude im there for you...:beer!:
funpolice come and get it...

 

Dude. you're arguing with yourself. No one has said ABS is shit, in fact pretty much everyone agrees that ABS is a good thing - it's just not a substitute for maintaining riding skills. You keep going back to track riding to practice braking - it's totally different on a track to on the street, if you're braking at ten tenths on the street like you would when racing or going hard at a track day then you're more than likely going to end up taking yourself out whether you have ABS or not.

 

It's a catch 22 because if you have it then you won't ever develop the required technique to brake effectively. You will just "mash".

The braking sequence you described is what you should be doing all the time anyway. Constant evaluation of speed, traction, road conditions etc.

 

QFT

 

Most people think abs helps you stop in a shorter distance.. This is actually wrong..

Abs prevents your wheel from locking up so you can still steer the vehicle.. Actually because of the brake pads releasing pressure on disc, your stopping distance will naturally be longer.

 

I've activated abs in a car exactly once, and i didn't enjoy it ..... Electronic brakeforce distribution however, is very nice .... I dunno how abs works on a bike but if its as jolting as in a car I doubt you'd be using it as part of yur cornering strategy....