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MOST practice sessions and learner rides?

Discussion in 'Learner League' started by Alchemystic, Mar 25, 2016.

  1. Alchemystic
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    Alchemystic Member

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    Hi guys, so I picked up my girl yesterday and I'm already getting her up to 80, doing low speed manoeuvres and trying new things on her.

    I wanted to know @Miggzie when the MOST practices are held - I sent a request as Andy Aprilia to join the facebook group too.

    Also, who else is a learner and would like to go for some casual rides around Canberra (less than 1 hour rides)? Safety (and shared embarrasment) in numbers, let me know if you're interested because this cold weather doesn't bother me (snow/hail/gail force winds could cause problems, but we've got a bit of time before they get here).

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  2. Alchemystic
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    Alchemystic Member

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    Just a reminder, I'm aware of the necessary guidelines for organising a group ride. This just an EOI query, nothing concrete atm

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  3. Miggzie
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    Hey, the MOST practice sessions are usually held on Saturday afternoon (4pm) each week at the Bruce CIT
    Tho not working a 9-5 job & having other commitments means that some of the sessions happen at different dates & times (e.g. 10am Saturday or 4:30 Tuesday)

    The best way of finding out when the next one is on is checking Facebook or messaging me (here or there) if I haven't posted the next one
    Atm I'm gauging interest for a Easter Monday afternoon session on fb
     
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  4. Franki
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    Franki New Member

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    Is this usually every week? Even if nothing is in the calendar on here?
     
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  5. Aeek
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    I'm keen to do another, and Easter Monday works.

    Also, not sure about all L group rides. Might feel more pressure to keep up, which is bad.
    I'm so much faster over Mt Mac now than I was on the 7th day.
    Might have crashed if I'd tried to keep up with my later self.
     
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  6. Miggzie
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    Yeah, pretty sure I've done at least one a week since the end of January
    I used to put them up here but as most people are Facebook they didn't get a lot of notice
     
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  7. Aeek
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  8. Miggzie
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    That could be because I have yet to post the next one
    I have places to be Monday morning so I'm working out my timing for when I can actually hold it
    Should be up by midnight, probably...
     
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  9. Aeek
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    @Miggzie never braked for the swerve, no matter how many times you yelled at me. Throttle yes, my scoot has strong engine braking.
    Why can't I flick it at 25 when I can at 50+ ? Physics or mental blockage?
     
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  10. supamodel
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    supamodel Secret Aaaaaagent Man Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    Bit of A and a bit of B. At 25 the bike also has steering dominated by turning in the direction of the turn, at 50, not so much.
     
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  11. Miggzie
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    Weird, looked like it, must be some powerful engine breaking
    Didn't mean to yell, just i know its harder to hear with a helmet (I'm near deaf with one on)

    Mhm.. Could be due to the small rotational mass of the scooter wheel? As it's the reactivate torque from turning your front wheel (a gyro) that leans the bike as required by the manoeuvre

    How big is the front wheel on your scooter & what is its curb weight?

    Next time you're practising: try counter steering more aggressively (more force through your palms)
    As always be careful & slowly increase the amount force
     
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  12. Aeek
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    14" 190kg, 79kg on the front http://thescootershop.net.au/product/sym-gts-300i/

    Steering? last time I consciously steered a bicycle was 20 years ago and I crashed. i.e. I don't use my hands, they follow the bike as it does what I want.
    I guess I'll have to do Mt Mac every day to train my subconscious. Sacrifices.

    Bike serviced today, so no worries there. Really noticed the lack of engine braking riding the loaner Vespa
    Will be doing a scooter session as a Motorini customer on Sat @ 4.

    BTW I noticed a Lambretta Motorcycle being worked on.
     
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  13. Miggzie
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    Ok then; I'd say it's the small front wheel that makes it harder to do (for comparison I'm on a 17" / 194kg)

    Yikes, don't do that

    So counter steering basics:
    Find a long stretch of hwy, gently push your left hand forward
    The bike will lean to the left (& want to turn that way)
    Do that with both left & right side, get comfortable with the motion
    then next time you're running up & down mt mac; feel how pushing the handle forward helps tip you into the corner
    Get used to that & BAMB! mad counter steering skils

    Oh that's ride, yours is a single 300cc 4 stroke
    2 strokes don't have as higher compression thus less engine breaking per cc
     
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  14. Alchemystic
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    Alchemystic Member

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    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but having ridden scooters I know what Aeek is struggling with (sort of):

    Wouldn't applying more throttle and then using your rear brake (very lightly) during corners help you with tightening the turn at lower speeds? That's what I had to do when I would ride scooters at lower speeds (and yes, a scooter that heavy will engine brake pretty well) - that's a disadvantage, but the advantage is that your engine will have greater balance when keeping revs higher.

    Also as Miggzie said, if you're having real trouble getting the tire to turn in, your scooter may be able to counter steer at 25kmh (combined with a steady throttle and loose body position). Go out onto a highway and spend some time just feeling how far your scooter is willing to lean (push it a little bit further each time as long as you feel comfortable)

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  15. supamodel
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    supamodel Secret Aaaaaagent Man Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    Interestingly a smaller wheel should make it more reactive, not less. Bigger wheels are for stability esp. in a straight line.

    Scooters also have super low centres of gravity, what with the motor sitting in the swingarm and all, which does change the dynamics a bit.

    The biggest challenge I find with scooters - and generally when I can on holidays I rent the smallest scooter I can and wear out the sides of the engine cases riding them in a spirited fashion up and down the best riding roads available - is that you can't lock in as much to put in the same force to countersteer. The usuals apply, i.e. get forearms perfectly parallel to the road so your steering input entirely goes into steering the bike, but the weird feet and arse position doesn't work as well (there's a reason racebikes have good solid footpegs kinda just behind your hips, and it's not just about ground clearance, and they have something solid for your butt to anchor into too).

    Weighting the outside foot board helps a lot. I can't remember the CR users name anymore but I helped her out on her little red scooter just before her P's test and that was the big unlocking thing for getting the thing to steer fast enough to do the swerve. Huge input and big weighting on the outside footboard and it worked alright.
     
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  16. Miggzie
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    The logic I was going on was that a smaller gyro would require greater defection to make the force needed to lean the scooter a low speeds
    So more aggressive counter steering to achieve the same effect
    Sound reasonable @supamodel ?

    @Aeek let us know how you go once you've had a chance to put this into practice, I'm quite keen to find out what works
     
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  17. supamodel
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    supamodel Secret Aaaaaagent Man Staff Member Moderator Supporter

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    It's not the gyro that forces the bike to lean or turn (you can countersteer and make a motorcycle -- or any 2 wheeled vehicle -- turn with wheels geared to have reactionary masses so they have zero gyro effect).

    I reckon it's mostly down to the different riding position that doesn't let one force the bike as much. That's been my experience with scooters, in any case... ya can make a scooter with 10" wheels turn in plenty fast enough with the right encouragement.
     
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  18. Alchemystic
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    Alchemystic Member

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    While generally smaller diameter tyres should make the bike more responsive, scooters also have less weight over the front tyre in addition to the tyres usually being thicker than your average 125/150 motorbike. Makes them more stable once leaning, but the laid back body position lack of central grip (fuel tank between thighs) causes slow responses if the rider simply sits on and twists the throttle.

    @Aeek When doing these maneuvers, try and sit as far forward on the seat as you comfortable can and push down hard with your feet on the foot(kick)boards. This will put more weight on the front tyre and give you faster turn in

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  19. RobBy66
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    You are allowed to do the swerve test at any speed above 20(?)... so do it at 50+ :jet.gif:
     
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  20. Aeek
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    So I did a little experimentation on the Parkway when I had enough separation from the other traffic, and today Mt Mac for real on the way home.
    Wow, so easy, and push to turn is so easy to remember. Now to combine active countersteer with my existing techniques.
    Definitely better for quick left right left rights and when I'm not quite sure which way the next corner is going.
    Noticed I initially move sideways into the corner, need to watch/adjust for that. Ideal for the swerve test.
    Also need to ride a bit further and do it the other way, into the sun is sub-optimal.

    Approaching Coffee last night, I noticed I do strongly countersteer for an urban 90 left. By pulling back on the outside bar as I lean back and accelerate.
    Just feels right. Will this be a bad habit when I get my 700 sports? (keeping the scoot for everyday)
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2016
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