Cornering technique.

Hi all,

I'm after some pointers on cornering technique. I've been working on getting my arse off the seat and getting my elbow and head inside the line of the bike then following the line I want to take with my eyes. Are there any other things I should be doing? I should just do an advanced course but I've got no spare cash so listening to others is all I can do at this stage. Any comments would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Mick.

 

Read Keith Code's "Twist of the Wrist II".

This book forms more or less the basis of a Superbike School "Level 1" course

But for quick tips.. two that spring to mind...

- You should be relaxed enough even when hanging off the bike to be able to do "The Funky Chicken" mid corner without upsetting the bike at all. It sounds weird, but its a good test of how relaxed your arms are. Stiff/tense arms translate bumps and shunts into steering inputs = bad. Relaxed arms and grip mean that you and your body soak these up WITHOUT effecting steering. Try next time your going around a corner to flap your elbows. Trust me, it looks weird, but its a good test.

- Always look where you want to go - even if this means staring at a rock wall. It actually makes a massive difference... look through the turn and if you feel yourself running wide, look even harder into the turn! the moment you try and look to 'where your running wide too' you'll run wider and/or target fixate on something ugly. I know you already 'look through your line', but actually make the head movements even more distinct.. dont just look a little bit into the corner...

 

What part of your cornering are you specifically trying to work on? Do you want to brake later, get more lean angle or hit the gas earlier? It's pretty difficult to improve all three at once - I'd recommend focusing on improving one area at a time, whilst maintaining the others. Once you've got one element locked down you just maintain it, and start building another one. That is the way I did it, but of course it is only my opinion - I'm sure there are other methods.

Are you having any particular problems, or are you comfortable at the moment and just want to go faster?

On Adrian's second point - it is surprisingly difficult to master, as when you get excited you tend to automatically switch to 'death grip' mode : It's vital when hooking into a hard right-hander though.

Tut tut Ado... my new hobby - xkcd :

 

Shamed :roll: I walked into that one with great effect huh ?
And yes - as AusJC said - its good to just keep working on one thing for a while, and also, do it again and again and again so you can work to 'retune' "Survival Instincts".

This is one of the things I find good at SBK School - they work real hard on trying to 'reprogramme' your survival instincts that are instrinsicly bad on a bike... Like:

"Oh my god, Im going too fast around this corner and going to run wide!"
Natrual Survival Instinct: Must Shut Down Throttle and Wipe off Speed (NOOO! This is ALLL Bad in this situation!)
Correct Reaction: Throw bike down harder, look harder through the corner, and whatever you do, for gods sake keep that thottle open!!

This is the joys of motorcycling - Convincing your brain in a time of 'life or death' to do the inherent OPPOSITE of what every logic thinking bit of your brain is telling you to do - Learning to stay relaxed doing the funky chicken through corner after corner after corner is all but the begining

(PS: I often still do the funky chicken today, just to keep myself in check and make sure I *AM* relaxed...)

 

Thanks for the replies. On Ausjc's point I should have been more specific. I'm trying to work on my lean angles. Mostly concerned with my body position and how I can improve it.

This I've also been working hard on. I had found myself going wide on a lot of corners when pushing it a little. After reading a lot I narrowed it down to two things. Looking at where I am going not where I want to go and being to tense in my arm and chest. Since then I've been looking through the corners a lot more and its amazing the difference it makes. Such a small change can make a massive difference. As for combating the tenseness what works for me is having a little more belief in my ability and the bikes. This can be a little dangerous if you let it get away but I find if I back my ability to get around a corner I relax a lot.

Another interesting thing I only picked up today was that previously I would really freak out if I was going into a corner hard and a car was coming the other way. Even if I had heaps of room subconsciously I would tighten up and run wider thinking I'm going to hit this car even when I has a heap of space. So today I found a line that works for me when I'm in a corner with car coming the other way or going in hot. "Too late your committed now". This just reminds me that I have committed to the corner and I have to direct all my focus to it.

This is weird but it works for me. So many times today I'd run that line through me head and I'd find all my focus go to the right areas.

 

Sounds like Ado's advice was pretty much spot on :thumbsup: Find a long-ish (ie not a sharp 90 degree turn) corner with good visibility and practice the points mentioned above. Gradually increase your lean angle as you get comfortable by applying a bit more forward pressure on the inside bar.

Remember to take it easy - you want to be smooth with all your actions once you start getting bigger lean angles.

 

remember in order not to turn in too far by increasing your lean angle, you must also pick up the pace more with each pass

 

Look further ahead than you think you need to.
The most common cause of running wide is the feeling of running in too hot, resulting in tipping in too early.
Concentrate on "enter wide exit tight", getting the right line is important.
You will learn a lot more on a course than you will here.

 

That's more a racing technique. What they teach at Stay Upright has always worked a treat for me - Bike in, Body Out (though Bike in Body Up would probably be more accurate).

Head up and look where you want to be. Don't just use your eyes, turn your whole head.

 

Bike in body out, is low speed technique (<15Ks), unless you are on dirt.
You will learn a lot more on a course than you will here.

 

+1

(oh my god, Im agreeing with Vinniebarbarino.... )

 

I'll put a stop to that :

Only kidding, I totally agree with the above :thumbsup:

Yeah that might be true, but probably not at Stay Upright - they teach a very conservative style which probably won't help Mike with what he's looking for. Something like Superbike School would probably be better... or even just a trackday with some footage/pics to see what you are doing wrong - poor body positioning is usually pretty obvious upon seeing pics, even if you aren't very experienced.

Of course, there's more than one way to skin a cat - different bikes are conducive to different styles.

 

Guessing you are right about that - how about their advanced course, can anyone comment there - Bogan did they tackle this on your course? I am interested in doing the Superbike school, but logistically it is pretty onerous. If the Stay Upright course was worthwhile, if not as good, at least it is local.

 

I think it would be fair to say the Stay Upright courses focus more on safety and improve core bike skills. Superbike School is about improving your higher-performance skills such as quick-steering, getting on the gas earlier etc etc.

The Stay Upright advance courses come closer to the superbike school level classes, but aren't anywhere near the same. I think the course Bogan did was the MASTERS course which is more like a less dumbed downed version of the current L's course - they teach you things accepting you can ride already.

 

A mate of mine went on the advanced course, he said the instructors absolutely slammed a couple of blokes for hanging off a bit; I wasn't actually there though, so these guys might have been hanging off like idiots.

It's nearly $400 for the advanced 1 and 2 courses, so it's worth calling them up and making sure it'll suit your needs before booking it!

 

Yeah Advanced courses are what I'am planning on doing although I've spent all my money on the coming track day at wakefield so it'll have to wait a while. And I think my chain is foobared as well so I might have to find some money between now and Friday for that as well.

 

Anyone wanna play game of chinese whispers ?
Because,... I heard from my next door neighbours', second cousins', mate............. :laugh:

 

Look ahead as far as you can
Look through the corner > exaggerate the amount you need to look. ie: 'Follow your nose to fruit flavour it goes'...! The more you improve your peripheral vision the easier this will become.......so turn that head > check out the pic below for an example. It looks like I'm looking at the Camera man but I didn't even know he was there > you can see that where the bike is pointing is totally different to where my head is pointing.....(each pic is of a different track but the pics look similar....couldnt find the pic I really wanted to choose as an example but these aren't bad)

Head as close to your tank as possible > even when cornering > you'd be surprised how much extra speed you will get!

Don't 'try' to go knee down > esp by hanging off the bike > knee down should be a result of going faster, requiring more lean angle to make it round the corner.....ALOT of riders say they struggle to go knee down on the road > only to go to their very first track day and go knee down in the 1st session. This is because there is far more grip than the road, so you naturally just tend to go faster, result = knee down!

On the road, you really need to get your whole arse of the seat and stick yer leg out only to look like a monkey but I'd recommend NOT trying to go knee down on the road as the inevitable will happen one day.........

Hmmm...what else........ :?

Adrian and AUSJC both make very good points and their comments would be good to focus on.

I'd also start thinking about how MUCH you counter steer but being careful not to use too much force with the bars > cornering also makes you weight your pegs depending on what you're trying to acheive > much like dirt bike riding alot can be garnered from weighting the pegs and taking some of the turning force out of the bars > making the bike more stable, esp exiting the corner under hard gas as using too much force via the bars/counter steering will have negative effects on the bike, esp tank slappers.......

Hint: weighting the pegs is not JUST for corners either.......

 

Kewl J-Rad. I'll definately work on those few points.

Keep the tips coming ppl. I'm all ears.

 

You aren't taught good body position until level 3 of Super Bike school. I was lucky to get a few pointers when I did my level one, that was due to me coming off, and being over confident, needed to improve technique.

Anywho, if you want to do an advanced course, I highly recommend the HART Intermediate course down in Melbourne near the airport. Best course I've done to date (even more so than Superbike school). Its slower speed stuff, you it really teaches you what can be done on a bike and what it can do at slower speeds. You use their bike and they are happy for you to drop it over and over again, without needing to pay for the damage excess