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The Pirate Party ACT seeks CR suggestions on potential policy

Discussion in 'General Stuff' started by taco, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. DJY
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    DJY Consumer of motorcycles Veteran Member Supporter

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  2. taco
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    taco Member

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    What's frustrating is that if the poster had of gotten involved back in 2009 instead of quitting, we may be a registered party in the ACT today.

    The first Territory Congress will be held on the 28th of July, and is the preferred venue for the party to set policy.
    I'd like to keep the initial platform to fairly broad ideals rather than get down into specific policies such as MC filtering (especially ones that may prove too difficult for the wider membership to agree with) at this stage, and then refine the platform at the 2013 Territory Congress.

    If you've got any issues you would like to see discussed at the Congress, email me at glen.takkenberg@pirateparty.org.au
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2012
  3. ProblemChild
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    ProblemChild Member

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    piracy is stealing & does hurt the artist, no matter how you dress it up with your BULLSHIT studies, they are crap, as with all studies the peramaters are set to benefit the people who comission them, saying that stealing from anyone benefits them is just taking people for being stupid & offensive. yes there are more sucessful acts out ther than there used to be , but the population to support them is huge in comparison as well.anyone who thinks that any act can survive off touring alone is delusional, touring alone only covers its costs, they all make thier money off merchandise, as in t shirts, posters, & c d s etc , so any piracy of these items hurts these artists, as for major artists on contract they only make about 2 % of profit, what about independant artists they only make what they make which in most cases isn t much.so yes piracy does hurt all of these people!!! im not saying throw all in gaol or fine them zillions of dollars for the occasional download,ask yourself how many people you know who have been prosicuted for the occasional download, i personally dont know one& have only heard of a couple. so any slacking off of the laws will only play into the hands of the major pirates , which makes me wonder what the motives behind the pirate party are ???? so im sorry gents but you won t be getting my support & i hope you fail P C
     
  4. taco
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    taco Member

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    [MENTION=293]ProblemChild[/MENTION], we support the right of artists to sell their work, we just don't think that right should exclusively extend for 70 years after you are already dead.
    It's a bit hard to make a living when you are dead.

    The problem you have raised of very low income levels is entirely due to the recording industry taking more than their fair share.
    When the recording industry takes 98% of profits, who is the real thief?

    We want to help remake the industry so that artists and not middlemen get paid.
     
  5. Dragunov-21
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    Got any reliable sources for that? And FWIW, although their cut may be considered excessive (though once again, it's a free market, deal with it), they are an integral part of the industry, without which many artists may never have seen the light of day or reached the level at which they are now operating. It takes more than musical/cinematic talent to become a commercially successful entity.

    Once again, qualification, 70 years is a lot for exclusive rights, I understand that, though honestly I would expect to see some level of royalties paid to the originator regardless of the period of time.
     
  6. ProblemChild
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    ProblemChild Member

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    mate i have been floating in & out of the music industry for 30 plus years , i know the downfalls of the industry, & i don t necesarally like it but without record company investment there would be no industry, sad but true.the part of the whole thing that got me fuming was the BULLSHIT !!!!!!! about stealing helping the people being stolen from, that is taking people for being stupid & i know i m not, it also offends me that some wannabe politician or even an actual pollitician takes me for being that, in my books that makes them the STUPID ones !!!!!.
     
  7. taco
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    taco Member

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    I said (paraphrasing) that fans sharing between their friends helped increase the fan base which can then be monetised.
    Selling CDs and merch is one way, self publishing on iTunes or similar (where the split with the artist is around 70% to the artist), using tools like kickstarter to pre-fund a new album etc.

    It offends me that the recording industry tries to claim economic damages caused by piracy in excess of all the money that exists in the world.
    It offends me that the recording industry pushes trade agreements onto us that protect their interests at the expense of our sovereignty.
    It offends me that our culture is being owned and locked away by the recording industry to protect middleman profits.
    It offends me that our privacy is being eroded in the name of protecting middleman profits.

    The recording industry isn't your friend. They are parasites of hard working artists.
    They *actually* steal (as in remove your right/ability to use something) artists copyrights and profits, and have been caught out multiple times of not paying royalties at all.
     
  8. taco
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    taco Member

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    I was responding to PC's figure.

    Should Shakespeare's estate still claim royalties for every production or adaptation of his works?
    Should Mozart's estate still claim royalties?
    Should Da Vinci's estate be asked for permission to publish the image of the Mona Lisa?
    Should Disney have paid royalties to the Grimm Brothers estate for their adaptations of classic fairy tales?
    Should the Grimm Brothers have tracked down and paid the originators of the classic fairy tales that they compiled and rewrote?

    Copyright needs to expire. Perpetual ownership of *ideas* harms culture.
     
  9. Sprinter
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    Sprinter Member

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    So your argument is the record companies rip off artists so we might as well too?
     
  10. taco
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    taco Member

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    That is not my argument.
    See the part of what you quoted where I said we want the artists to be paid fairly.
    The problem with the industry isn't fans sharing music, it's with the record companies stealing rights and profits from the artists.

    In cases where the record companies take ownership of a song through their contract, a 20 year expiration will actually enable musicians to re-record or play their own songs post expiry without seeking permission from their record label.

    If you look at the non-copyright field - see how much innovation occurs once patents expire after their 20 year term.
    3D printers are currently going through a massive revolution as patents expire and people can freely use them.
    Music could do the same, but at the moment with it taking potentially over 150 years for copyright to expire, virtually all songs will be culturally irrelevant or lost by the time they will enter the public domain.
     
  11. Sprinter
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    Im not going to get into this any further because I think we have different views and neither one of us will change but my last comment is copyrights on music is nothing like copyright on technology and is a straw man argument.

    Trying to justify stealing from an artist on the basis that record companies charge too much and somehow just taking their products will make it better for the artist is just sophistry.For a start how did you decide whats a reasonable price and what access do you have to what costs a company has in producing CDs, plus the risk it carries, to decide the cost is too much?

    It comes across as youre just sulking cause you dont like paying for something and you hide behind arguments about freedom as if its a noble cause and not just theft.
     
  12. airsick
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    airsick Something witty

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    +1 Glad someone made this distinction.

    People around here seem to think that because a patent (or some other protection on innovation) is for a shorter period that copyright should be too. They seem to ignore the fact that there is a broader economic benefit to shorter protection on these things. And when the economic benefit has been recognised it seems that it has been suggested that the same benefits would apply to reducing the length of copyright on music yet no one has identified (let alone quantified) what these benefits actually are.

    You are my hero Sprinter.
     
  13. Someguy
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    Someguy Super Elite Awesome Member Supporter

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    I don't want to get involved in the argument but I do want to point out that while piracy is certainly copyright infringement, that is not the same as theft.
     
  14. Sprinter
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    The English language would disagree.
     
  15. Someguy
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    Someguy Super Elite Awesome Member Supporter

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    I should be clear - meant the term "piracy" as it's being thrown around in this thread to describe copying music/movies/other material protected by copyright.
     
  16. taco
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    taco Member

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    My view can be changed if you can give evidence that the current copyright laws fit the level of the offence, encourage creativity and provide a net gain to the economy.
    All credible evidence I have seen in the last few years has shown contrary to this.
    It is largely a federal issue anyway.

    Locally, I support removal of ACT Government copyright (such as what they use to prevent usage of the LA video feed for "Parody and Ridicule"), and the use of arts funding for creative commons licensed work.
    Another big part of the Pirate movement is open and accountable government (and not the lip service that Labor and Liberal does to that term)
     
  17. Someguy
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    Someguy Super Elite Awesome Member Supporter

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    You do realise that's a pretty standard restriction on proceedings from all parliaments? At least all the ones I'm aware of. I can't see that will ever change because, and quite simply, I don't think it should. Politicians should be able to do their jobs without having to worry that recordings of them will be used to parody or ridicule.
     
  18. airsick
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    Where have you proven that allowing piracy provides a net gain? I haven't seen this. A drawing parallels between patents and copyrights is not proof, they are patently (pun intended) different beasts.

    And shouldn't the requirement for proof be on you? Changing the status quo requires proof, not maintaining it.
     
  19. taco
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    taco Member

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    I disagree.
     
  20. Sprinter
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    Wow! Too many words. Simplify man, simplify.