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Point-to-Point "safety" cameras

Discussion in 'General Stuff' started by MickLC, Sep 22, 2010.

  1. MickLC
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    MickLC Member

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    Hahahahahahaha that's so dodgy
     
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  2. n4s
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    n4s Member

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    Well I was pretty skeptical about the $11.9B figure so I did a quick google search and found that the total cost of accidents to a territory like the ACT over ten years is actuallysomewhere in this ballpark (see links below), but I still think the line run in the article above would be assuming that the introduction of the cameras would totally remove this cost (ie would mean no accidents at all)(they do technically get around this by saying "as much as").
    I guess the underlying assumption here is that speed causes all accidents and that fixed speed cameras will stop everyone speeding............. I suspect I know what the consensus would be here on that argument...........:)

    http://www.caradvice.com.au/316/car-accidents-cost-australia-17-billion-dollars-a-year/
    http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications/67/Files/BTRE_staff_paper_martin.pdf
    http://www.nisu.flinders.edu.au/pubs/injcost/mvtraffic.html
    http://www.monash.edu/muarc/reports/muarc124.html
     
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  3. adr1an
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    adr1an Curator Administrator

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    Gargh! my apologies if this thread is now reading slightly screwed up :lol
     
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  4. Lurch
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    Lurch Capt. Sense of Direction Administrator

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    For those who missed the shoutbox discussion:
    http://www.canberratimes.com.au/new...topoint-cameras-come-to-canberra/1948302.aspx

    What a complete load of rubbish
    If they want to improve saety on that road - HOW ABOUT SOME FUCKING STREET LIGHTS??
     
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  5. Lurch
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    Lurch Capt. Sense of Direction Administrator

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    Time to get my rant hat on...

    Seriously - who made this decision? Yes, I know - Stanhope. Its his personal little pet project. But last time I check, the Govt was there to serve the community and do what *we* want. And as far as I can tell - *NO ONE* wants these things. Sure there might be a few police-state, crying-nancies, fun-police types out there who think they are the greatest thing ever (read: latest bandwagon).
    But clearly - this is nothing more than an exercise in revenue raising.
    Look at where they want to put them. Hindemarsh, Tuggers Parkway, GDE. The only roads that have enough straight bits to let the cameras work. And also bits of road that seem to be exceedingly...errr.... straight. And free of accidents for that matter. So lets slow down people in the least required areas. Smart.
    And on top of that - their latest sales pitch seems to be the savings on accidents (which there are none in that area). Since when did the Govt care (or should care?) about the savings on insurance companies?? Do you really think that the lowering the amount of accidents (which it wont) in Australias lowest populated major city is really going to affect anything? Do they really think it will lower premiums? I will eat my hat if it did. Its such a load of crap.
     
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  6. MickLC
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    MickLC Member

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    You think? :lol:
     
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  7. Lurch
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    Lurch Capt. Sense of Direction Administrator

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  8. adr1an
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    adr1an Curator Administrator

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    yeah.. the problem here is its much like "Vision: Zero" (or should I say "Zero Vision" :lol ) . Its a great idea that is hard to argue with because it identifies a faulted conception of reality.. Don't get me wrong ! i'll be the first to sign up for it when I move to Utopia...

    And here I was thinking it was changing because I've seen quite a few "Mobile use while driving" messages on the variable message signs.. *sigh*.
    I really really want the question of the imbalance of speed as a primary causation to accidents versus the vast number of other primary factors such as alcohol, inattention and inability addressed.. or at least answered in terms of how a Speed-Camera is going to solve that.

    Oh thats right. These are the magical Drink-Driving-Mobile-Phone-Using-Fatigued-Inattentive-Speed Cameras...
     
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  9. Lurch
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    Lurch Capt. Sense of Direction Administrator

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    They cant make money on those things
     
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  10. CT90
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    So who exactly is saving the money? The insurance companies pay for the damage, employers miss out on a worker for a little while and plenty of people pay into a health fund for medical expenses. Are they talking about the income tax they will miss out on and the sickness benefits they pay?
     
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  11. Sprinter
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    Get the speed limits raised
     
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  12. Lurch
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    Lurch Capt. Sense of Direction Administrator

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    The other thing I *really* dont like is a small chapter in the 'report' which states that the cameras are also capable of monitoring for:

    • Fixed Speed cameras (yay - more!)
    • Bus Lane Enfocement
    • Traffic Related Offences (read: *less* police)
    • Traffic Data (have you read 1984 lately?)
    • Non-traffic offences (huh?)
    • Mass Surveilence (repeat: 1984)
    • Road User Charging (read: Conjuestion charging. More revenue - Yay!).
     
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  13. CT90
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    So that must be the same thing they have put up outside of Goulburn near the bends (old road) on the Federal Highway. Glad I'm not a fan of main roads.
     
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  14. Lurch
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    BTW; in regards to cost:
    for just 2010-2011 (which will see the the roll out of *1* set of cameras) is $1.35 *MILLION*
    $1,350,000!!!

    Seriously - how many cops would that pay for?
     
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  15. adr1an
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    adr1an Curator Administrator

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    Well... hard to say, but according to the AFP, the cost of Traffic Enforcement and 'general' policing is:
    so it would easily expand the traffic branch by about 1/8th...

    Source: http://www.police.act.gov.au/~/media/act/pdf/act-policing-annual-report-2008-09.ashx
     
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  16. mobtek
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    Last edited: Sep 22, 2010
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  17. n4s
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    Well, just had a chance to read the TAMS report. I refer you to the exec summary and table 12.1 on page 70 where they list the minimum and maximum net economic benefit of introducing the cameras. The report lists the maximum benefit from crash reduction at $11.8 MILLION with over the entire period 2010 and 2019 (based on 7% discounting). This is a lot less than the Canberra Times $11.8 BILLION and clearly points to a big typo either by the Canberra Times or by the media release........Only a factor of 1000 out!!
     
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  18. Elmo
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    Just as well my v6 commodore is not fully sik enough.... I'll be safe from tickets!! :)

    Whilst i hate speed cameras and their justifications for putting them up, is it really hard to just do 80 or 100 etc?
    I can understand if the road went from 80 to 100 to 60 to 100 etc it can be a nightmare but not in this case....
     
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  19. Someguy
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    Someguy Super Elite Awesome Member Supporter

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    Stanhope is going to leave an awful taste in Canberra well after we boot his clueless, incompetent ass out of office. That guy is a muppet.

    Even worse though, are the Canberrans who don't seem to care about what's going on here.
     
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  20. CT90
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    Not if it's the driver of a black Mazda that felt the need to compare the speed of his car to an R1 on the Parkway one night a while back. Good thing you don't own a Mazda.
     
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