'90 Suzuki RGV250 VJ21- Highside update

Re: Archie, My 1990 Lucky Strike Suzuki RGV250 VJ21

Right, enough smack talk about my weight. The clutch slipped on the dyno, SO IT WASN'T JUST MY FAULT! I'll leave the rest of the dyno day summary stuff to MIZ, I'm going to post about brake pads now.

After riding it at PI, I felt the brakes were not as awesome as they should be. RGVs have pretty damned good brakes for what they are, and the first place I looked at were the pads. EBC Extreme Pro pads are available for the fronts of VJ21 RGVs (well, 1989-1990 ones, I think 1988's must have run different calipers). Part number is EPFA158HH for the fronts. Not the easiest pads to find, but they are definitely awesome - they were an excellent upgrade to the already fantastic brakes on my Monster.

Changing front pads on an RGV is easy.


First, undo the two mounting bolts. 14mm socket here.


Caliper can come all the way off the disc then be pulled away from the wheel, no annoying pulling the caliper off at an angle to avoid striking the wheel.


My special tool to hold the caliper one it is removed. I have several of these, invaluable things when you're changing wheels at a track day. Built from a rubber-covered coat hanger. Lets you hang one end off the frame somewhere and the other end holds the caliper out of the way, without just leaving it dangling on the brake lines (a BAD idea).


One end of the hook goes up on one of the radiator support mount/clutch cable holder...


...and the other through the top-most mounting hole.


Remove screws that hold on the dust/anti-rattle plate.


This exposes the R-clip that holds the pad retaining pin.


With R-clip removed, pull the pad retaining pin out of the caliper.


I've removed the pads here to show you the pistons. These are 4 piston calipers, 2 each side. These pistons need to be pushed back into the caliper to make refitting new pads possible.

There are a few ways to push the pistons back into the caliper. One is to use an old pad and some multigrips. Since I couldn't find mine, I used the second method: screwdriver between the old pads. It works, but it does tend to ruin the old pads. Meh, these were CRAP pads.


Using a screwdriver to lever the pads around so as to push the pistons back into the caliper.

If you have superhuman grip strength like me, you can also just use your fingers to push them back in.

New pads go in, pin goes into the hole in the middle of them, R-clip on, dust plate thingo goes on with the 2 screws, refit caliper to fork, make sure bolts are tight. Then a few pumps on the brake lever to make sure the pads are fully seated against the disc and you're ready to rock and roll. Note, if you are doing both calipers at the same time (I tend to work with only one removed from the forks at a time), don't pull on the brake lever with the caliper not against the disc - tends to shoot the pistons out and it sucks mega nuts putting them back in.

The pads that were in Archie were crappy ebay metal gear ones. They are moderately well recommended by many people, actually, but I wouldn't. In my opinion, they are sub-standard. Other than the fact they felt like poo on the track (just lacked bite), they are also crap for two reasons. One, the 'sintered' pads here (equivalent, according to many resellers of Chinese brake pads to Ferodo sintered or EBC 'HH' pads) contain a few metal flakes but the rest of the pad material feels like compressed wet cardboard. No wonder they lack bite!

Secondly, and more importantly, they just aren't constructed to the same tolerances. The EBC extreme pro pads I put in fitted into the caliper perfectly, just enough slop they didn't get stuck on the caliper, not so much they wobbled around badly. The friction material on each pad in each packet was also of the same size. Not so for the metal gear ones: the pads cover a slight different area, and...


... the shiny bit near my thumb is where part of the metal backing has been worn away by the caliper. These pads were actually stuck into the caliper, they're about 1 or 2 mm oversize for this application. Once the caliper and pads are hot, maybe thermal expansion would mean they didn't drag, but they would have dragged when the brakes were moderately cold. Also, my feelings of a lack of bite (i.e. solid lever but not much retardation) could be a sign they were sticking in the caliper and not engaging. Bear in mind that not much movement forward or back onto the disc is required for disc brakes, it's not like they move very far whenever you pull on the lever.

Yet another reason that I think I'll avoid cheap Chinese knockoff stuff when it comes to bikes. The cheap Chinese fairings work but don't fit that well and are a pain in the arse everytime to get them on and off, the ebay pads were shite, and the ebay levers just aren't as nicely constructed as the CRGs I have for the Monster (and, a set of RGV Chinese levers were only about $30 less than I can source TL1000s CRGs for, anyway...).

Will be replacing the ebay wave discs sometime, they have nasty vibrations at speed. Not so bad at road speed but they were very noticeable at PI. That was after balancing the wheels as best we could when the alpha12s were fitted. Best thought for discs are EBC Pro-lites. The VJ21 RGVs run the same brake discs as early SV650s & a few other random Suzukis, 290mm rotors with about a 5mm offset or something like that. The EBC part number for an RGV/SV/whatever_else rotor is MD3003, and are universal left and right. I think pro-lites are MD3003X but I have to refer to an EBC fitment book to get the exact part number correct .

 

Re: Archie, My 1990 Lucky Strike Suzuki RGV250 VJ21

The EBC HH pads (part numbers FAxxxxHH) are good (as are the Ferodo sintered) and then the Extreme Pro EBC pads (if available: part numbers EPFAxxxxHH) are a step better again. They're fkn phenomenal on the Monster, it's like smashing into a brick wall thanks to the brilliant Brembos supplied on that.

The pistons are a touch rusty but they definitely work. The brakes were rebuilt before we bought the bike (with genuine seals and all, previous owner gave MIZ the receipts for most bits on it), the side that touches the pad does bugger-all work and a bit of rust in there is only a problem when it makes a hole . The dirt on the outside of the pistons (i.e. the bit that would go into the caliper) is only a bit of brake dust on them, nothing critical.

 

Re: Archie, My 1990 Lucky Strike Suzuki RGV250 VJ21

Yeah, I knew about the wave discs, was just a temporary fix to get Archie registered .

Hadn't seen the ebay Chinese levers thread, pretty much reinforces my feelings on that stuff. The issue of stuff not being made to required tolerances matches what I observed with the Metal Gear pads, too.

I bought some cheapo levers for the gixxer because they were the cheapest way to find out what levers cross-referenced with a 1991 GSX-R 750. Archie came fitted with some... turns out the gixxer and RGV levers are identical, so, we can buy decent sets of TL1000s levers and they'll work on both bikes! For everyone that can't see the difference between them and Pazzos etc, Pazzos are beefier in the mount points and a few other places. CRGs and Pazzos have much nicer profiles to the levers themselves, too, and feel better under the fingers. I'm certainly happy with the CRGs on the Monster (so much so I bought a spare pair just in case I bin it on the track).

 

Re: Archie, My 1990 Lucky Strike Suzuki RGV250 VJ21

Cause the metal gear pads didn't come out the back . That, and they were singificantly worn compared to the new pads, so pushing the pistons back in might be been a bit of a bastard.

Also, photography... easier to show the pistons with the caliper off.

 

Re: Archie, My 1990 Lucky Strike Suzuki RGV250 VJ21

shoooosh, or you shall suffer the wrath of The Miz.

And she won't bring the leftover cupcakes for you on Friday...